Lula: "Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty is the main theme of the G20"

Fighting hunger and poverty; energy transition; global governance reform; and taxing the super-rich. These are some of the main topics of the Brazilian government's agenda with other countries, highlighted President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva in an interview with journalists from various international agencies on Monday, July 22.

The president advocates that countries unite to take responsibility for eradicating hunger in the world. That's why he is taking part in a meeting in Rio de Janeiro on Wednesday, July 24, to approve and pre-launch the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty. "Hunger and poverty are a phenomenon of human behavior, that is, of political leaders. So the idea of creating this crucial global alliance against inequality and hunger is the main reason, the main theme of the G20," he said during the interview.

>> Full interview by President Lula (available in Portuguese)

Hunger and poverty are a phenomenon of human behavior, that is, of political leaders. So the idea of creating this crucial global alliance against inequality and hunger is the main topic, the main theme of the G20”
Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, President of Brazil

The alliance establishes a practical mechanism to mobilize funds and knowledge from various countries and international bodies to support the implementation and expansion, on a global scale, of effective actions, public policies and programs — developed by various countries and institutions — to combat inequality and poverty. The goal is to expand the bases for development and overcoming hunger in the long term. The Global Alliance against Hunger and Poverty is expected to be definitively launched in November, in Rio de Janeiro, during the G20 Leaders' Summit.

Regarding energy transition, Lula emphasized that renewable energy sources are great opportunities for development in Brazil and the countries of South America and Africa. “This is where poor countries are able to debate with rich countries on equal terms. What is different is that rich countries do not have the mineral wealth that we have, they do not have the wealth of forests that we have. But they do have the funds to help use our wealth of forests, fauna and of water. We have to have sufficient funds to keep all this standing,” he detailed.

The president also highlighted a recurring topic: the taxation of the super-rich, so that part of their accumulated wealth can be shared by way of tax payments. “I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible to build a consensus in defense of taxing the most rich,” stressed Lula.

The President also spoke about his efforts to reinsert Brazil in international geopolitics, a goal that he considers he has fully achieved. “When I took office on January 1, 2023, one of my goals was to try to recover Brazil’s image and political participation in new global geopolitics,” he said. “I think we have managed to put Brazil back on the international stage,” he added, mentioning the series of bilateral and multilateral commitments he has been part of since the beginning of his 3rd term as president.

Lula pointed out that, as a result of his international missions, “we are at a stage now where the world is coming our country.”“Brazil visited the world, now the world is going to visit Brazil,” he said. The President also addressed the public policies the Federal Government launched to improve the quality of life of Brazilian citizens, and implied that the results will be very visible to the population. “I am very aware of what we have sown and, so, I’m sure what we will reap,” said Lula.

Check out the main excerpts from President Lula's interview with international agencies:

INTERNATIONAL IMAGE — When I took office on January 1, 2023, one of my goals was to recover Brazil's image and political participation in new global geopolitics. Brazil was an important country when I left the presidency in 2010. It was important under Dilma but, after the impeachment, the country lost importance in the world. Brazil had almost become a global pariah. Nobody wanted to come here, and nobody wanted to welcome the president. My mission was to try to rescue this image of Brazil, because it can be, it has the size to be, it has population, technological and scientific knowledge, the intellectual basis to become a global protagonist. We can only be global protagonists if we respect ourselves: no one respects those who don't respect themselves.

GLOBAL ALLIANCE — I think we have managed to put Brazil back on the international stage, especially through three topics that we consider extremely important. The first of them is the fight against inequality and hunger in this country. The fight against inequality, the fight against hunger, against poverty, is a battle that cannot be won by a country alone. It has to be won by all the countries that are willing to assume this historic responsibility. Hunger is not a natural phenomenon. Hunger and poverty are a phenomenon of human behavior, that is, of political leaders. So the idea of creating this crucial global alliance against inequality and hunger is the main topic, the principal agenda of the G20.

HUNGER — When I came back this time, it was very sad to know that we, who had ended hunger in 2014, were back on the hunger map. What makes me happy is that, so far, we have lifted 24.5 million people out of hunger and poverty. This means that we will end hunger in Brazil once again. It means that, once again, the salary mass is going to increase. It means that, once again, unemployment is going to drop. It means that inflation will be under control. And we are working to reduce interest rates, which is a major impediment to Brazil's more vigorous growth; is the most expensive interest rate in the world. So hence the relevance of our gravity in addressing the fiscal issue, and the relevance of the Central Bank thinking a little about this country, and not just its role within the Central Bank. So I am aware that we will end our term in a very good situation for the Brazilian people.

GOVERNANCE — In addition to this alliance, which we intend to have many countries in, we are going to discuss the issue of governmental change at the UN, in other words, we need to have a more active, more haughty world governance, a multilateral institution like the UN, which has more representation, which has more countries and not just the five that created the UN and are on the Security Council.

ENERGY TRANSITION — At the same time, we are going to discuss another extremely important subject: the energy transition the planet needs so much. In addition to the energy transition, Brazil has extraordinary potential, as you know, not only because 90% of our electricity is already renewable, 50% of our energy matrix is entirely renewable, we have had ethanol for more than 40 years, we have biodiesel, we have biomass, we have wind, we have solar energy, and now it’s time to explore green hydrogen. In other words, these are extraordinary prospects for countries like Brazil, for South American countries, for African countries. This is an extraordinary panorama; it is where poor countries are able to debate with rich countries on equal terms. What is different is that rich countries don't have the mineral wealth that we have, they don't have the wealth of forests that we have, but they do have the funds to help use our wealth of forest, fauna, water. You have to have sufficient funds to keep all this standing.

TAXATION OF WEALTH — Another thing we are also going to discuss is taxing the richest people in this country. Here, three thousand people possess 15 trillion dollars. This is more than the GDP of Germany, Japan and England combined. So we need to discuss this, you know? It isn’t hard to end hunger, to end poverty. We just have to make people who have accumulated wealth share some of it by way of taxes. I think it is possible to reach a consensus. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible to reach a consensus in defense of taxing the richest.

G20 IN BRAZIL — In addition to all these trips I have already made, we are at a stage now where the world is coming to the country. Brazil visited the world, now the world will visit Brazil. And we have G20 news. The first news is that we have 67 G20 meetings to hold in various fields. We created the Social G20, and we are working with women's empowerment —created in India—, which we want to strengthen a lot, because women have an extremely important role in society. More and more women are taking on political roles. Even Brazil is an example, because we have approved a law in the National Congress that establishes equal work and equal pay for women and men.

COP 30 IN BELÉM — Many decades ago, everyone could hear the whole world talking about the Amazon. Now the Amazon is going to speak to the world. That's why we convened the COP in the city of Belém, which is a very special place in the Amazon. It is a place with problems, because it doesn't have all the structure that big cities like Paris, São Paulo, London, Madrid, and New York do. But we are going to do it there so that everyone can see how people live in the Amazon. So it is going to be an extraordinary thing for us. I hope we can make the most of it.

NATIONAL ECONOMY — I met with the director general of the IMF, in Hiroshima, in January 2023, and she flatly said that the Brazilian economy would only grow 0.8%, or, who knows, a little less. And I told her: “You are mistaken. The Brazilian economy will grow by more than 0.8%.” We grew 2.9%. Inflation is under control, unemployment is dropping. We have the lowest unemployment rate of the last ten years. This is a demonstration that things are moving forward. In Brazil, people need to learn how to use macroeconomics, which the market discusses so much through the press, and microeconomics, the so-called small credit for millions of people in this country which makes the economy work. I always say that in a world in which few have a lot of money, the result to society is poverty, illiteracy, prostitution, hunger, unemployment. In a world where everyone has a little, it is exactly the opposite. Society becomes a middle class society, society can consume, society can eat out, society can live with dignity.

TIME TO REAP — I've already launched almost 89 public policies within the Planalto Palace, but between launching the policy and it actually beginning to function, it is like water in the shower, you know? You turn it on and it comes out cold first, you have to wait for it to heat up. The economy is the same. After you sow, it takes time for things to germinate and for you to be able to start reaping. So now, we are at the reaping stage. What did I promise? I promised to place 3.6 million children in all-day school. I promised to create 100 new technical institutes. We created a program —Pé-de-Meia— to ensure that high school child do not give up on education because of their family’s budget. We are paying savings of BRL$9,000 over three years. There are instalments of BRL$200 over ten months. We are ensuring, in a pact with the state government and city halls, that children are taught to read and write at the right age. By the second year of elementary school, children are literate in this country. If you don't learn to read and write by that age, it will be a huge setback throughout your life. So I am aware that we are going to deliver a more productive Brazil, a happier Brazil, a Brazil with more people consuming, with more people having cars, with more people traveling, with more people smiling, with more people talking about love and with fewer people talking about hate, and less fake news.

FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY — I carry the issue of fiscal responsibility close to my heart, because I always mention my mother's economic model. She used to say: “Son, we can only spend what we earn. If we spend more than we earn, we will go bankrupt.” Except if you take credit to build a new asset. But if you go into debt to spend, you will go broke. That's what grounds me. This is my big lesson in economics. I didn't learn it at USP, I didn't learn it at Unicamp, I didn't learn it at Harvard. I learned from an illiterate woman called Dona Lindu.

INFLATION — The important thing is to make the Brazilian economy grow, to distribute wealth, to control inflation. I know the importance of controlling inflation. I know because I lived inside a factory for 27 years, when inflation was 80% per month. I know because I felt it in the flesh and on my kitchen table. So, my responsibility for inflation is greater than that of any citizen you can imagine.

MANAGEMENT — If I tell you how we found this country… you have no idea. Several ministries had been dismantled, several ministries were without employees. Ibama had 700 fewer employees than when I left in 2010. Guys, I'll give you a number that is the most striking of them all: when I left the presidency, on December 31, 2010, 3.8 million cars were being sold in this country. When I returned, 15 years later, this country had only sold 1.8 million cars. That is, half. And now I'm making a really big effort, you know? Things are happening, because the automobile industry has already announced investments of BRL$130 billion by 2028. The Chinese industry coming here was very important because it leveraged others’ desire to compete. This is what Brazil needs. So we are not going to play around  with fiscal, economic and social stability. There are three fundamental values ​​in my life, and I want to make them a new way for this country to grow again and distribute some of what it produces.

CHINA — It is important to say that this year we completed 50 years of diplomatic and commercial relations with China. We want to have a big party here in Brazil, because President Xi Jinping is going to come on an official visit, and we intend to discuss with the Chinese a new strategic partnership between Brazil and China. A strategic partnership that involves not only exporting commodities, but that, deep down, involves a discussion regarding science, technology, the production of chips, software. In other words, what we actually want is to have a strategic partnership that makes the Brazil-China relationship infinitely greater, more prosperous and capable of generating jobs in China and in Brazil. I am very optimistic about this visit by President Xi Jinping and about the G20 meeting. China is a great partner to Brazil. Brazil can learn from China. How did China manage to make the leap in quality it made regarding trade in such a short period of time? We don't want to fight with the United States to be with China. We don't want to fight with China to be with the United States. We want to have a relationship with China, with the United States, with Germany, we want to have an alliance in South America. This is the role of a country the size of Brazil. This is the role of an important country which has many, many perspective and a very promising future for its people.

ELECTIONS IN THE USA — To the extent that President Biden has decided to take a stand, my role is to hope that they choose a candidate to contest the elections and that the best candidate wins, the one that the American people vote for. Because my role is not to choose the president of the United States, my role is to live with who is the president of the United States. So, whether it is a democratic candidate, Biden or Trump, our relationship will be a civilized one between two important countries that have a centuries-old diplomatic relationship that we want to maintain. We have important strategic partnerships with the United States and we want to maintain them.

PEACE — Brazil has no divergences and this is good. You can be sure of one thing: every country in the world likes Brazil. Everyone. And the opposite is also true. Brazil has to like every country in the world. Brazil does not have to analyze whether “this president is right-wing, this president is left-wing, this president is this or that”. That is not the role of a president. The Brazilian State interacts with the Chinese State. The Brazilian State has a relationship with the American State and the German State. If we keep this in mind as a definitive thing, the world will get much better. The world cannot be a victim of provocation. Cheap provocation often happens. The world cannot depend on this. Politics cannot depend on it. That's why I'm a citizen of peace.

OIL — I am broadly in favor of the world having a very powerful energy transition that will enable us to give up fossil fuels. Now, the reality is that the world still cannot do without oil. What we need to do is what we are doing in Brazil. We are using our beloved Petrobras to make it one of the instruments for promoting production and growth in the energy transition. But we will not stop exploring the wealth we have, because the world still needs oil and Brazil needs money. 90% of our electrical energy is clean. We have been using 30% ethanol in gasoline for a long time. We are a country that use 15% biodiesel in diesel oil. In other words, in fact, what the world should do, with a little humility, is to learn. I remember that in 2008, when I was president, I received more than 98 leaders from all over the world. The European Union was going to add 10% ethanol to gasoline by 2020. We are already in 2020 and it hasn't added a liter. Japan was going to add 3%, it has added nothing.

REFERENCE - In other words, here is the thing, Brazil has the formula, has scientific and technological knowledge and a company to do this. And we will do it. If people want to produce green steel, they must produce it in Brazil. If people want to produce green cars, they should produce them in Brazil. That is what we are going to do. And that is why we cannot do without oil. Oil is one of the sources that we can use towards an energy transition — and, at the same time, increasing the share of biodiesel in diesel oil and ethanol in gasoline. This is how we are going to do it. But I am in favor of us no longer having fossil fuels in a few years. Now, the world has to be prepared for this.

ENVIRONMENT — We made a commitment to zero deforestation in the Amazon by 2030. No one asked us to do so. We were the ones who took on the responsibility to reduce deforestation by 2030. We are now facing wildfires in the Pantanal. You have already published this, and I saw that 85% of the wildfires were on private property. But we have already placed almost 850 people there. We have already deployed 14 aircraft and 27 vessels so that we can fight them. What is important? We bear in mind that this is the first time in the history of the Pantanal that the river is dry in the first half of the year. Never before in the history of the Pantanal had there been a drought like this. So this is just a warning. From January 14 to July there were 3,900 hotspots in the Pantanal. And we acted very quickly, Marina [Silva, Minister of the Environment and Climate Change] makes this an almost exclusive priority. And we will try to fulfill that, because it is not just the Amazon. It is the Amazon, Pantanal, Cerrado, the Atlantic Rainforest, the Caatinga and the Pampas. There are six biomes that we have to take care of in Brazil, and we will take care of them.